Soxton is a NewMod AI-first law firm, launched by former Cooley lawyer Logan Brown. Using AI, a small team of lawyers, and fixed fees, it helps startups with their legal needs. In this AL interview we explore what inspired the move, what Brown’s goals are for Soxton, how the mix of tech and law works together, and how she sees the legal market evolving.
A key takeaway here is that Brown sees Soxton operating in the space between Big Law and Google search. I.e. new companies want legal help, but they neither want to spend their hard-won Seed funding on Big Law fees, nor do they want to rely just on random legal information they have found on the internet. Soxton fills this gap. Another point is she strongly believes that with so much tech-based change coming through now the legal market will be very different in five or more years.
Please press Play to watch inside the page, or you can also go to the AL TV Channel and watch this and many other interviews and AL TV Product Walk Throughs.
Below is the AI-generated transcript.
Richard Tromans (00:00.974)
Hey everybody, Richard Tromans here again, at Artificial Lawyer TV and today doing another special interview. This time we’re with Logan Brown, who you may have read about recently in Artificial Lawyer and elsewhere, who has created what I’m calling a new model type law firm called Soxton. Great to have you on the show, Logan.
Logan Brown (00:30.806)
Thank you, so happy to be here.
Richard Tromans (00:33.246)
a lot of people are getting very excited, me particularly about these AI first new model structures. we can get into the economics of it and what it all means, but first of let’s kind of get to your story. so you’re at Cooley. How did it, how did this all begin? How did you go from Cooley to this?
Logan Brown (00:51.944)
Yeah, so I was at Cooley for a little over two and a half years. And I had a really great time there. I learned so much represented 50 plus companies from incorporation to exit represented a variety of venture capital funds really just like absorbed in the ecosystem, the startup ecosystem. But I left mid May to start Soxton. I think what inspired me is that I have like always wanted to be a founder. Like I when I was in law school, I started two companies I cross enrolled, I went to Harvard Law and I crossed them.
Richard Tromans (01:20.462)
You started two companies while you were at university. Wow, unusual.
Logan Brown (01:24.534)
I did. And when I was in law school, so my first semester of law school, I started a pantsuit company. And so it’s machine washable. It’s called Spencer Jane. And it’s a machine washable pantsuit. And I primarily sell it to like female lawyers. But I cross enrolled at Harvard Business School and MIT Sloan. And through that I started I met I never I did not have any experiences with entrepreneurship or startups, or anything of the sort until I started that endeavor. And
Logan Brown (01:54.42)
And then through that, I met many peers at those business schools and learn more about the venture capital space. And so I entered Cooley for a reason. It was because one, I liked founders and I had some experience founding before and I had an eye on doing it again. Like I didn’t enter Cooley wanting to become a partner. I like really just like wanted to learn more about the ecosystem and I was constantly inspired by my clients there. And so whenever the AI wave started taking hold of the legal industry, I was paying attention.
I was like seeing where it was being used with Inquely. I was like thinking through problems that it could potentially solve. And so I just like think that it’s such a transformative technology. And we’re at a sudden inflection point where so much funding is being poured into these types of companies that I just couldn’t resist. I wanted to hop on board. I wanted to play a role in this shaping of this new legal industry that I am certain is going to exist in the next five, 10, 15 years.
Richard Tromans (02:50.22)
Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. Okay, fantastic background. I didn’t realize you were already working companies already. Very interesting. All right, well, let’s talk about Soxton. First of all, I have to ask, what does the name mean, Soxton?
Logan Brown (02:54.557)
Yeah, yeah.
Logan Brown (03:05.014)
So it is named after the hoxton hotel. So I went to grad school in London after I graduated from undergrad. And I used to study in the hoxton hotel. And when I was there, I was like, this would be such an awesome name. And I have since learned like the Carlisle group is like named after like the Carlisle hotel. And so I’m not the first like company to do that. But it is just like where I used to study.
Richard Tromans (03:28.888)
Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. I know it well. know it well. fantastic. Okay. Well, yeah, yeah, it’s, all right. Well, look, so I guess let’s, we’ll get onto economics in a minute, which is the bit, I guess I’m really more interested in anything else, but the, the actual structure, what are you, what are you going to be providing you? So it’s focused on helping startup companies just talk us through some of the things that it will be.
Logan Brown (03:57.154)
Yeah, so we help companies in their earliest stages. And so we’re not so much as like trying to replace big law right now, we’re trying to be that like initial step that people are using chat chippy t for. And so think of as I was like an outside general counsel, so we help incorporate, we help like bring on the first employees, advisors, general day to day questions. And so our primary customers right now are founders in their earliest stages. And then we have a couple, we have like actually quite a few clients that have engaged some like larger firms as their counsel, but they use us for like the smaller things that they probably wouldn’t otherwise go to them for. And then we’re able to help provide them I think that our most use service right now is what we call like the bespoke agreement where basically you can ask for a type of agreement and what startups need if it’s something that you think is pretty routine, then we’re able to get it back to folks pretty quickly.
Richard Tromans (04:46.946)
Gotcha. And so, so you begin effectively with perhaps very early startups, very early stage, pre-seed type level, know, they’re really just, it’s like a garage type outfit.
Logan Brown (04:58.858)
Exactly. Like founders at their earliest stages, which is like I think a super fun place to be.
Richard Tromans (05:34.478)
it’s difficult to plan ahead when you’ve just started, but do you think that you will expand what you’re offering?
Logan Brown (05:54.038)
I do but I do think that there’s so much to like capture where I am like playing I think that there is a large demand for legal services for people that traditionally just like would not consume them. I think that that’s one of the real benefits of AI is that people are having access to technology having access to resources and like legal sphere that they never have before and so people are able to get access to better legal services at an earlier point in time and so reaching people that otherwise couldn’t afford it is
of physics, that’s a huge market. And so I’m really wanting to tap that and like provide services that realm. think that like these are folks that are currently just like using chat to BT, which I, I often like side is like 80 % of the way correct. And then like, we’re able to like help make that like 90, the last 20 % like bridge that gap. But yeah, I think that there’s just like a lot to be done in this initial space. And then then I’ll figure out my product roadmap. But I’m very focused on on this early stage in like the places where legal like traditional legal services just like don’t are not able to serve that customer base.
Richard Tromans (06:58.24)
Yeah, and it makes sense to start at, you know, literally their beginning and then you can grow outwards as you expand. So, I mean, how many staff is it? Is it just you? Is it whole bunch of people? What does the staff look like?
Logan Brown (07:10.74)
Yeah, so we have me and then we have a slew of contract lawyers and then we have an engineering team. I’m getting ready to hire more if you want to work for Soxton go to Soxton.ai we’re hiring lawyers and engineers and data engineers and all of the all of the typical things that you would expect an AI company to be doing. But right now we’re we have like four full time folks and then we’ll a number of contract people
Richard Tromans (07:35.566)
And we, mean, just because people will be watching this from all the way from India to Indiana, I mean, you’re taking people all over the world or you want people in New York.
Logan Brown (07:44.13)
over largely in the United States. think that for for full stack engineers, we’re hiring globally, but then for like lawyers, you have to be part in America.
Richard Tromans (07:53.422)
True, no, that makes sense, that makes sense. And that’s actually an interesting point. So I wouldn’t claim to be an expert on company formation documents in America. Do you need lawyers from every major jurisdiction or does New York do it?
Logan Brown (08:08.706)
So we are hiring folks like that have experience working in big law and the startup type of law firms before and so like most companies are incorporated in Delaware and so we’re hiring folks with like that type of experience. We don’t represent people directly in court like we’re not like focused on litigation or doing any sort of that work more so just like the straight up corporate governance route. And so folks that understand like Delaware formation and Delaware contracting needs is our where we’re
hyper focused and then employment with employment agreements. That’s where like state issues get very specific and so then in those cases we will rely on lawyers that have an understanding of like the specific jurisdictions, but that’s how we’re hiring.
Richard Tromans (08:50.478)
Interesting, interesting. And so in terms of the clients, I how do they pay? It’s a fixed fee, you have like a sliding scale, you occasionally slip into billable hours. I how does it work?
Logan Brown (09:00.418)
No billable hour. I’m very clear that there’s no billable hour here. I think that that’s gonna be something that goes away. I think that we all hope for that
But it’s a it’s a flat fee. So it’s $20 a month to have access to our platform. And on theirs, there’s just like a number of templates. And there’s like general guides and checklists and the various things. And then but with that, there’s like a menu of items. And so there’s just like all sorts of things that you might need. And you might not know you need. And those are all flat fees. And so like, for example, you’re like, Oh, my goodness, we I need an influencer agreement today for like with like this percentage of like a revenue share, you can request that
And then we’ll get back to you with it by the end of the day usually and it’s $100. And so everything’s just a flat fee on top of this like monthly access fee. And that’s how we’re going about it for right now.
Richard Tromans (09:46.838)
Interesting. So that would suggest you do need a degree of volume to make this work. You can’t rely on just a small group of wealthy people in Palo Alto. You’re going to have to get some scale on this.
Logan Brown (09:51.572)
Yes. No.
Logan Brown (09:58.162)
Exactly. And so that’s like, we’re, wanting to really democratize access to these types of forms, these types of agreements, like really good quality legal. And so we’re really focused on removing inefficiencies in that process. And then also just like serving as many people as we can.
Richard Tromans (10:14.594)
Gotcha. And which leads us to funding. Just remind the audience where you are with your funding now.
Logan Brown (10:20.812)
I raised a pre-see round of 2.5 million. Yeah, I was there at least with it.
Richard Tromans (10:25.006)
Good. who were the, again, also just for the audience’s sake, can you just remind everyone who are the key investors?
Logan Brown (10:32.896)
Yeah, so Moxie led and I love the team there coalition strobe flex Park Rangers capital also all invested along with some really cool angels including Katarina fake the founder of flickr and some other really great folks I I’m such a fan of my cap table I tell people all the time that I feel very lucky about it.
Richard Tromans (10:51.852)
Yeah, it’s also, I guess, living proof, isn’t it? Because I guess these people come from either the investment or the tech world themselves. So, you know, it’s.
Logan Brown (10:58.816)
Yeah, I have a lot of like, operators that are on my cap table. I think that like those folks make really great investors and people that I really solicit for advice and it have deep understanding of this space. And so I’m such a fan of them.
Richard Tromans (11:13.398)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. it’s, I mean, and do you know, do you know the folks at Crosby? I mean, who are doing a different thing?
Logan Brown (11:19.286)
I don’t know them. But I know the Crosby T I know what they’re doing. But I think that that’s also such I mean, they’re doing there have a different angle than us where they’re focused on the high volume bottlenecks and like lighter stage companies. And I think that that’s such a real problem. And so I’m excited to see what they’re doing to I think that they’re a testament to this type of model can work. I think that they’re really making innovations. And that’s like a real problem. It’s a different problem than what we’re trying to solve. But I think their founders, I know their founders also former Cooley.
Richard Tromans (11:48.614)
I mean, I mean, are you, I mean, may, mean, you’re so focused building what you’re building. You know, I mean, you, mean, someone like myself who like watches the market on a daily basis. mean, what’s fascinating that I see is, is that there’s almost like an entire new segment emerging of what I call the new models. call them AI first, but there are so many variations on that theme that I’ve just called them a new model. So, you know, you’ve got people like, yeah. And it’s like, you see, you’ve got, you’ve got like this story of a day and obviously it’ll
Logan Brown (11:52.78)
Yeah.
Logan Brown (12:05.554)
gosh, yeah.
Logan Brown (12:09.666)
I like that new mod.
Logan Brown (12:19.426)
I think there’ll be more by then I think that there’s like new ones popping up every day. think that like I say this all the time is that like the innovation of technology is just like, there’s so much money being poured into legal tech like billions of dollars and there are so many people leaving big law and so many people leaving their fields that are just like creating amazing technology that there’s no way that this industry looks the same now.
than it in then in five, 10 years, I think that the technology exists rapidly transform it. And then there’s like the money and the people that are like bringing it about. So I think that we’re at the very beginning here, I think that there’s so much more to come. And I think that even like, I don’t know what this looks like in five, 10 years, I’m excited to be a part of it. But I think that the legal industry is we’re going to see some major changes. Yeah.
Richard Tromans (13:04.718)
I really, really, really hope so. really, really hope so. mean, I’ve been banging this drum since like 2016 when I saw my very first legal AI company and a lot has changed. mean, it’s all relative, isn’t it? I mean, you know, it’s like zero to one looks like an enormous jump. Right. But then you realize you’ve got one to 10, 10 to 100 and on and on, you know, logarithmically. But I mean, I think we’ve passed zero to one.
Logan Brown (13:21.443)
gosh, yeah.
Richard Tromans (13:30.798)
2016 to 2022, which actually ChatGPT was like zero to one. Now we’re like going up from one to 10.
Logan Brown (13:35.563)
Yes.
Logan Brown (13:39.784)
Yeah, I super agree. I mean, I think what what do we see we see initially saw like the folks that are servicing law firms like the Harveys of this world. And then we’ve like seen that continue to iterate. And then I think that you’re going to see more people like me that are focused like highly vertical, like very vertical going directly to consumers, and really try to innovate alongside the business model too. And I think that like big law, like I think the big law firms are also like rapidly like change adopting these technologies too. I don’t think it’s like they’re just like staying stagnant. I think that everybody is like adopting new things and figuring out what this world looks like. And so it’ll be fun to see.
Richard Tromans (14:13.838)
And I mean, fundamentally, it boils down to the clients, doesn’t it? I mean, the I think some of the big law firms, was kind of watching what some of them went early to get the press release out. Others just went, well, let’s wait and see what the clients say. Now the clients are saying, well, we’re using it more than you are. So we can’t wait to get you to come with us. know, so I mean, I mean, I mean, I suppose for you, it’s kind of slight difficult to say what are the clients say, because your clients are all very, very, very new.
Logan Brown (14:39.114)
Yeah.
Richard Tromans (14:39.278)
But in four or five years, you might have the next lovable as one of the people who you helped advise or the next.
Logan Brown (14:45.616)
gosh, we have like, I mean, we have clients being funded by founders fund. We have YC companies, we have like real companies getting real funding. And so I’m there. I mean, we have like a couple of folks that left open AI that got funded by founders fund. Like we have real companies. Yeah. So I’m excited. A lot of most of mine are in stealth. But we have many that are doing that. I think that that’s my favorite part of this job is that I get to meet these founders.
Richard Tromans (15:21.23)
I know it’s very early days, but it’s like with as these companies mature. And I guess at this point, I imagine very few of them have an in-house lawyer. Probably none of them have.
Logan Brown (15:36.902)
Yeah, I think that like, I’m pretty explicit that once you get an in house lawyer, we’re probably not the solution for you. Like we’re, we’re a good solution up until that point. But I think that when that happens, we’re probably like, I think where I always where I want to play for the time being and for like the immediate future, like where I’m deeply passionate about this market is the place like the photo the in between things like I think that there are so much stuff that like you just like wouldn’t go to Big Law for like you would just like
find some template online, or you would use ChatGPT, or you would Google it, or you would just go without. That’s a whole legal market that’s just like largely unaddressed. And so I wanted to continue to provide adequate, like very good service. I’m very proud of the service that we provide. We have like very high quality documents, very high quality review, and represent those types of companies and help with those types of issues. Like I am open with my clients. Like I’m not trying to do everything here. Like I’m not trying to take away.
coolies business, I’m not trying to be your be all and all lawyer, I’m trying to take the like highly repeatable, automatable things and provide those to you at like a fraction of the price or like a very high quality version of what you would find on the internet and make sure that you’re set up with the guard bells correctly. And then I think that there’s a lot of volume there. But also just like I want to create something that I’m proud of that I feel like is providing a lot of value to people and I’m very proud.
what we’re doing. think that we’re helping founders get like big play a small part in their journey and provide excess value and what we’re creating.
Richard Tromans (17:06.318)
Yeah. And I think it’s great. You’re so passionate about it. Can I just ask you just a couple of things to write on a bit of a regulatory geek in my spare time. The, the, mean, you’ve probably seen companies law firms like Covenant. They have an interesting structure where you have effectively a law firm and a tech company. And there’s a licensing deal between the two of them. And that way it, that’s how you work as well. So you have, so you have a tech company LLC, whatever it is. And then you have a law firm under the New York bar.
Logan Brown (17:33.182)
Exactly. And then we’re very strict about like anybody engaged with the law firm, like the tech company doesn’t have any sort of control over the like practice of law and like making sure that we’re actively following all of those the rules there.
Richard Tromans (17:47.064)
Gotcha. That’s interesting. And I mean, have you been tempted to, I don’t know, set up a little office in Arizona or Utah to get… Yeah, you know they do. Yeah.
Logan Brown (17:53.346)
I think that’s the way it’s going. I mean, I think that, yeah, I’ve been I’ve looked at that. I think that I like the model that we currently have. Like, I like, I think that there were I’m not really limited by
can do right now. think that I’m just like focused on providing the best like sort of service to founders that I can and the technology that we’ve created in the licensing field. think that that system works like really well. But I I’ve thought about it. I think it’s like interesting models and most companies are going there.
Richard Tromans (18:23.682)
Yeah, yeah, totally. Actually, just on that point, mean, there’s two reasons to come to the UK. One, because it’s the second largest legal market in the world. Way smaller than America, but still the second. And then a second point would be you can do virtually anything in the UK. can even list your, you could list Soxton on the stock market and retain the legal bit.
Richard Tromans (18:47.478)
Yeah, no, well, not not next week, but you know, I mean, it’s very, very broad range of opportunities.
Logan Brown (18:54.292)
Yeah, I think that I mean, in addition to the innovation occurring, like within just like tech, I think that there’s also innovation occurring within like business models of like, how like, where’s charge, but also like the top of it. And I think that like bar associations are adapting, whether it be like Utah and Arizona, I think that other other states are like looking at that and being like, do we need to do things? And I think that we’ll also see a change there in the next five, 10 years as well. And so we’re paying attention to that. I think that
I want to make sure that we’re providing services and bar associations are set up for a reason and I respect what they’re doing and I want to make sure that we’re like I think that it sucks that we’re not trying to innovate there. I think we’re wanting to play by the rules and make sure that we’re ethically sound and so we’ll pay attention and follow the rules wherever we are.
Richard Tromans (19:38.19)
Gotcha. Gotcha. And I think that goes back to your earlier point and you’re absolutely right. There’s a huge gap between what you can scrape off the internet or through chat GPT and then engage in Cooley, Wilson Sonsini New England, Gundersen or whoever. I mean, I mean, a lot of people might not think that that gap is very big, but it’s enormous, isn’t it? It’s a chasm.
Logan Brown (19:49.036)
Exactly.
Logan Brown (19:55.682)
Yeah, that’s like, I think that there’s a lot that occurs in that space. And so there’s a lot of people that are also just like not in a position to engage in a law firm. And so I think that like this new market of folks that are being created is aware is where I’m focused on playing.
Richard Tromans (20:09.73)
And that’s the nice, it goes to the Jevon’s paradox point, which is that, you know, people think that if you bring AI for the law, you kill it, but actually maybe you expand the market.
Logan Brown (20:16.95)
that’s I think that that’s right. I think that we’ve already seen like across industries, the number of people accessing like the judicial system, whether it be from like litigation standpoint, or resource standpoint, it’s increasing people are having a better understanding of the legal sector. But I think that where people are making missteps is that it’s like not 100 % correct. Like I think the AI will is like trained to give you a very confident and concise, we correctly sounded answer. But like whenever lawyers like if you ask a lawyer a question, like it’s like a joke,
that they’ll say, well, it depends. But like they say, it depends for a reason because like there are so many nuances to the law. They’re trying to understand and figure out if any of those like edge cases apply. so like, a chat GPT isn’t set up to do that, which is like why they change their terms of conditions. And so I think it’s overall like a really great thing that people are having more access to understanding broader things and legal services. And I think that
the tooling will only improve. We’re just like wanting to make sure that like where it really matters, which is like the corporate governance of a company where when you’re getting set up, when you’re taking on funding, when you’re hiring employees, that things that those are critical to get right, that people have the ability and the resources to do it.
Richard Tromans (21:24.802)
Fantastic. Just last couple of things. Looking forwards again, you know, obviously you’re right in the middle of it. It’s hard to plan ahead, but roughly, mean, where do you kind of, you know, you’ve got instincts. I where do you think you’re going to be in another couple of years? I mean, this is going to be a significantly large company by then.
Logan Brown (21:31.435)
Yeah.
Logan Brown (21:40.038)
I think, yeah, that’s the plan. think that we really I really am passionate about servicing founders. It’s like, I don’t want to expand to like representing VC is like, I really want to just stay with representing founders. And scaling, I think that like, the more founders that we’re able to help the better. I think that there’s so many people that are starting companies that are super innovative. And I think that there is a real need for what we’re providing. And so making sure that we’re able to help them.
Richard Tromans (22:04.91)
Fantastic, fantastic, brilliant, really, really interesting. And I’m going to be really fascinated to see how it grows.
Logan Brown (22:12.087)
thank you.
—
Discover more from Artificial Lawyer
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.